31 Июля

The reform of higher education: the experience of the leading universities

Radio "Liberty"

Radiprogramm "Class hour"

Posted on 07/17/2011 18:00

Tamara Lyalenkova

Tamara Lyalenkova. Topic today's program is the reform of higher education, which also came to an ideological completion although it was less marked than in secondary education. Moreover, despite the bulkiness high school assigned to tasks, some universities are already demonstrating their achievements. Rector of North-Eastern Federal University Evgenia Mikhailova and Head of Development Project Activities Department St. Petersburg State University Fedor Kazin presenting “Class hour”. The Executive Director of National Training Foundation (NTF) Irina Arzhanova tells about ways of developing. So, today we are talking about the results of the changes that were started in the Russian high school some time ago, which would have to introduce the leading universities of Russia in the global educational environment. Following international examples, including China and Germany, in Russia, there were identified higher education, gain an advantage over others - 8 federal, 29 and 2 national research universities.

Executive Director of National Training Foundation (NTF) Irina Arzhanova told how they took advantage, speaking at the conference "Leading universities of Russia in the context of European development trends of higher education.

Irina Arzhanova: Research and federal universities, group of leaders of higher educational institutions where enter 20 research, 8 federal and 2 national universities. Generally especially, if to speak about research universities which I know much better, about 70-80% of financing go on the equipment, quite essential funds for development of information resources, small absolutely money for professional development and absolutely minimum means left for development of new educational programs.

And research and federal universities are evaluated on a certain list of indicators that they have set for themselves, and for which they are measured every year, and now even more often. But this performancemore focused on the assessment of the university as it moves relative to itself. Today there are 10 programs. Yesterday there were 5 articles on one person, tomorrow - 6 articles on one academic and teaching staff. Normal levels, they might perform their functions.

You can cavil at to them because people could not choosethe correct method; they are not independent of external factors. So, in fact, the Ministry of Education is created two commissions. A commission to research universities and another for the federal universities, which attracted people from outside, the business, to see from these figures, including, in the techniques that are used to measure the performance of universities.

Probably, these indexes will be adjusted, change to some extent. And this year with federal universities we report used means for ourselves. But as soon as we quit on government level with delivery of reports that occurred, especially at federal universities which work long ago, it appeared that it is very difficult to formulate at all results, and effects which gave invested funds. Effects for society, effects for regions, effects for economy, effects for any branches or the enterprises, this groups of indexes not only affected, even approaches to an assessment doesn’t developed.

Tamara Lyalenkova: It was Irina Arzhanova.

However, we must not forget that all the changes in the end; it should be directed at improving the quality of higher education, not as an end in itself but as a tool for the professional life. My next question I ask the president of Fund "New Eurasia" Andrey Kortunov.

Andrey Vadimovich, do you think that reform, which occurs in higher education - the division into research universities, and federal, it would effective measures to improve higher education? This policy is productive, may be relatively foreign experience? But there is the idea it would be necessary to fit in the international space, including education.

Andrey Kortunov: You see, most experts agree that Russia has too many universities that such dissipation of resources over a large number of universities reduces quality. The average size of the Russian University is less than the average size of the university in America or even in most European countries. According to the logic, of course, enlarge should. This concentration of resources, it is economies of scale, the ability to better allocation of resources. As soon as the question of consolidation, merger or closure is transferred into practice, immediately raises a lot of problems.

For example, take the federal universities.The idea of the federal universities was just to combine several. And on the basis of this association to create something bigger, more mature, something more efficient. The first federal universities were established in Rostov and Taganrog - Siberian and Southern. I know that in the Southern Federal University, the processes of combining the four high schools are geographically separated. It was and continues to go very badly - different traditions, different cultures, of course, the personal factor. All this is going very hard, not to mention the legal complexities. This is the first thing that should be considered. This process is painful.

The second point; now we have about 40 leading universities and about half in Moscow and St. Petersburg, and 20 scattered throughout Russia. Just imagine that you are the governor of any region or republic. People come to you from the university and say - here we look at your university, it is not very good, perhaps, we'll close it. In your area will not be a university. Can you imagine what it is for the governor or the president of the republic? If the region of Russia, in a large region there is no classical university, what would think people who live there? What kind of future they will be able to plan for their children? Will think that the political elite of the region, which has taken away a university?

There are a lot of factors which, strictly speaking, have no relation to education, but, nevertheless, are very important. Therefore any changes connected to enlargement, combining, they, of course, were and will be painful, but from them too not to leave anywhere, at least on the demographic bases. It won't be simple more than such demand for educational services.

Legal faculties began to arise everywhere. Technical faculties began to enter humanitarian disciplines. But this period already passed. Therefore all the same process of consolidation arise number abbreviations. In what way? How painfully? Whether in it any role will be played by the ministry or everything will occur spontaneously? It is meanwhile difficultly to tell. In any case, at present it is possible to state that some branches were closed. But against that in Russia there are nearly 1,5 thousand, slightly less, closing of several branches with the ministry order, of course, doesn't solve a problem.

Tamara Lyalenkova: Meeting of the federal universities, picking universities in general is a complex process. Because under the same roof is collected research institutions, plus different educational institutions with different cultures. This is one aspect. The second is the need to address and to foreign experience, that is, to use the Bologna process on purpose, to move. This is difference of cultures education, do you think, great barrier to the successful Russian students?

Andrey Kortunov: If to speak about compatibility and incompatibility, this problem appears at different levels.

Tamara Lyalenkova: Well, the Russian educational culture after all very strongly differs and from any foreign.

Andrey Kortunov: It is different in the sense that we have a few archaic teaching methods. For example, we have a very large load on the classroom teaching students - four lessons a day. That is a lot. When students engage in independent work? And what is the lesson? This is a lecture load. Very often teacher lectures on a piece of paper, and the student writes that, in general, it can be read in the textbook. Our seminars are also a little archaic in how they are organized.

Let's tell, now in Europe there is such technology as the training activity constructed on the solution of tasks. When not the teacher lectures and even conducts a seminar, group of students shall decide a certain task. And in the course of the solution of the task they shall find information, they shall think over a certain diagram logical which would allow them to decide this task. And they, thus, collect knowledge in an interactive mode.

And in Russia redundancy of classroom loading, congestion of students and teachers, by the way, the teacher too works much.

Tamara Lyalenkova: teachers have no choice.

Andrey Kortunov: There is a joke about the University. University reform - it is like relocate from one place to another graveyard: it is very complicated, quite dirty. And, most importantly, you cannot count on support from within. University is conservative. Teachers ... Of course, there are charismatic rectors. But mostly system is inertial. There is a curriculum; there are traditions, established teams. Therefore expect that teachers will act in unison for some radical change is difficult. At least, we do not see nearly anywhere.

Another thing is that if you create a system of incentives ... The Ministry is trying, by the way, to do it - there are new grants. But, of course, the medium remains conservative and resistant to any change. The more so as in many universities, when the teacher says, tell the story of the reforms of the last 20 years. Reform will not improve anything, only worsened. Therefore, the less will be the reform, the less will be the change, the better - leave us alone, we'll somehow ourselves to deal. And if you want to help, give money.

Of course, this is vulnerable position. The Russian education is losing the global race. If everything is so wonderful, why is so bad? However, this position is clear and psychologically, perhaps it is justified. People are tired of reforms. They want stability. They want predictability. They want to be able to schedule at least 3-5 years. Only in this way the university can develop.

Another problem - we go to the Bologna system, share the learning process for undergraduate, graduate, but in many ways it is a mechanical separation formal.

Tamara Lyalenkova: And I think there is a chance of the same effect as with the Unified State Exam, just has not come yet. I asked some students from Moscow universities, but students who came from the provinces. They do not really understand what the Bologna process and the division into two stages.

Andrey Kortunov: I think that, of course, is a problem not only for students. This is a problem of the labor market, as employers rarely see Bachelor as a person with completed higher education. For many personnel officers - is a dropout. Therefore, its value in the labor market is often lower than it could be.

Tamara Lyalenkova: But, on the other hand, Andrey Vadimovich, there is a moment of wickedness. Often say that the personnel officer do not know about bachelors, but, as a rule, ask diploma mainly when a person comes to public service.

Andrey Kortunov: We have, if we talk about it, they do not ask a diploma often because employers often considers that still need to retrain graduates again that no knowledge, which were obtained in a university or it is still really not useful. And they do not look so much at the fact that a candidate knows, and how graduate reacts to external shocks, as far as he is mobile, how quickly grasps as flexible as it is sociable - it is also a problem. There are statistics; more than half of Russian graduates are not working in the specialty, and in some categories up to 90%.

Tamara Lyalenkova: On the other hand, there are statistics that even the working professions prefer to take people with higher education.

Andrey Kortunov: This is also true. Of course, education is a conservative institution. When we complain that education is not keeping pace with the market, behind - that's understandable. It exists everywhere. But when the gap is very large, then there is a problem. Then there is a need to modernize the educational processes.

Tamara Lyalenkova: However, despite the fact that the disparity between Russian education and economic life of the country is not so great, the modernization of of professional school, which spoke Andrey Kortunov, is not the first ten years. The fact that it is in the process of reform is changing in the leading Russian universities, said the executive director of the National Training Foundation Irina Arzhanova.

Irina Arzhanova: If you look at the projects in the three famous decrees - 12 billion, 19 billion, 8 billion were given under these decrees. Let's see on what this money was spent. Development and cooperation of universities with business, research infrastructure development, implementation, and interaction model of universities and enterprises. The third ordinance provides inviting leading scientists. The federal program"Personnel» is the program, which is generally focused or on support of scientific and educational centers, infrastructures, or on carrying out researches at these scientific and educational centers or researches under the leadership of the invited former compatriots. Private, generally, support of people, but too through infrastructure, through researches.That is, generally all these large amounts of means are directed on massive saturation of system of the higher education by infrastructure elements, support of researches and gain of an innovative component, commercialization.

Education, as a basic function of operation of universities falls out of the attention sphere. It falls out not because aren't engaged in it. All of them equally by it are engaged. It is their primary activity. They pay this operation for the current financing. But there is no that stimulating effort which would force people to think, process the programs, to implement new, to work with other target audiences etc.

I think the key difference between the European approach and the Russian approach in this. Because the European Union, in the European countries in addition to what supported by the innovative component in research and development, yet there are programs and assessment of educational achievement and the development of educational technology, and special programs contribution of universities in regional development. There's no such abrupt fault of research and development.

It seems to me that it is our omission is probably related objectively to the situation in the economy, and in the needs of the economy. But this is similar to the situation the early 2000's, when there was a strong tilt towards sociology, economics, political science, when engineering education was forgotten. And now again drops some facet falls humanities, social sciences fall that remain no less important than they were a while ago. And we cannot say that for the first five years, while their support, they are highly developed, and they can throw, they will survive.

Tamara Lyalenkova: Irina Arzhanova is right – the state is not always considering interests of the market located on such extensive space. For example, at recently formed North East federal university increased reception of future economists which number the president so actively urged to reduce.

The idea about that the high level of education can change social and economic life of the country received continuation in an educational policy, and so-called innovative activities became one of principal directions here. That is necessary in order that in higher education institutions new useful ideas were born, the head of department on development of project activities of St. Petersburg State Universiry of information technologies, mechanics and optics Fedor Kazin told.

Fedor Kazin: In order to develop the university innovative directions, we need some infrastructure that will link administrative office needs a team that works well in the structure of administration with the basic faculties, they produce primary surplus product. Specifically - educational services, research and innovation activities of the university.

The basis of this system are the people who work in the departments of the University, but which at the same time have the desire to deal with commercialization, development of project activities, and on the other hand, are substantive experts in their field. They are the kind of link between the administrative impulse that comes from the center, and the main basic functions of the university, people from these functions.

The second - this is, of course, the system of information support of the activity. The point of this system is to provide information transparency within the university. The main problem is that no one knows - who does what, to which the application is filed. And in order to change this situation, these people must be supported by appropriate information system.

The third is training sessions, which are held for members of the faculty, administrative staff and are aimed at ensuring that the necessary skills and competence to educate develop, and finally, institutional support, which is expressed in the form variety of documents, decisions, regulations and structures.

So, project managers of faculties. These are people on whom all this system keeps. They expressed desire it to be engaged, and were assigned by appropriate deans or heads of the department.

Thus, we received real interest of people as at first them asked – want or not, and then we got administrative support. After the project is initiated, contacts with colleagues from other faculties are come into. They work within temporal creative collectives on project development as we call it a preproject stage before application they drag on themselves the main loading of operation.

Yet there is no money. Still grants are not won. People engaged in information support of their own colleagues in the departments and faculties. Then they actually run the project, but not all projects. They will cease to develop new projects,because if they are given the opportunity to manage all of the projects. Therefore, as a rule, they only govern those who govern without them it would be impossible, since it requires their expertise.

The information system is based on two directions. The first direction is a social and corporate network which is created on the Share Point platform; the second is a database of projects on the Oracle platform which with each other interact at the level of the top level of information. That is all staff of university can know, what projects in higher education institution are, but further they can get to project information depth only if the principal of the appropriate project knows this person, understands and wants it to allow in this environment. One – a social network – is more open, there can join and not the employees, the second network – a database – there already finance, there already project management, and there arrives ITMO this only for the employees. And here interaction of these two networks creates, on the one hand, possibility of injection of new blood in project activities, and, on the other hand, accurate monitoring.

The system of project activities is as though passed from top to down through a university vertical. It provides possibility of its real functioning, because, naturally, problems a huge number. These problems are continually. Each small collective raises all new questions which arise in the course of practical activities.

Also this system stimulates so-called enterprise consciousness. Readiness for risk is desire to do something, to build consortia, to be engaged in development of small and medium business etc. All this requires is natural that someone above was ready to that his subordinate can appear in a situation of negative result. If the person is afraid of it, then the system doesn't work. Respectively, the administrative vertical of infrastructure allows people to believe that if something won't turn out, won't punish for that is impossible if you try to do something.

This entrepreneurial consciousness are built in a modern Russian university, it is, in particular, through this mechanism sprouts. And more and more people are becoming members of the system of project management. People gradually involve, raise the second tier and the third tier. People are starting to believe that something can begin to do, and deliver results in the form of funds from external sources.

Tamara Lyalenkova: Thus, universities are able to earn extra money to, perhaps, they develop further. However, most public higher educational institutions today have income from tuition fees, but apparently not enough. I asked the president of the "New Eurasia" Andrey Kortunov.

Andrey Kortunov: Universities have the opportunity to engage in activities that can make money. There is expert opinion that it is harmful. It is clear that the professor, who thinks about his project, will think less about student performance.

I always have question – that is the main thing? If the main task is to turn university into the commercial enterprise earning money, it seems to me incorrectly. Because for this task there are other organizations, there are the venture funds, the different companies, state corporations. There are a lot of them – the organizations which shall earn money. But! If we create all these science and technology parks, business incubators to prepare the best graduates, that is to prepare people who will be guided in the new world which will be able after an output from university to create the small company or to arrive in the big company, but in the big company to show the abilities to business, - here then it everything is very important. It seems to me that would be wrong to force universities to become the commercial enterprise at any cost. Then it already will be not university, and something another.

All this infrastructure allows the student to become the perspective participant of the new economic relations, it is important. And, of course, our students, our graduates very often are not ready to the modern life. I don't want to tell that it is wine only universities. Because in Russia there is no small business not because universities bad but because the general environment – legal, administrative, economic – doesn't encourage development of small business. Nevertheless, and universities shall make the contribution to the solution of this problem.

It isn't pleasant to me, it when even from the ministry such expressions become that here, we now will enclose billion rubles, and then let universities earn in universities, let of myself will take care. So doesn't happen. Even if to look at the most successful western universities, the American universities, Harvard, they don't earn money in the market. Yes, they sometimes have an income of that there are any patents which they own. Yes, they receive any money from the science and technology parks. But it is not that money on which universities live.

Tamara Lyalenkova: Besides there is a danger: in Russia somehow everything will peculiar be transformed.

Andrey Kortunov: Well, certainly. Very often, for example, there is a problem – money big, but they come in November, and it is necessary to report in December. Here the rector sits and thinks how him in month to spend money, and for something good and to report that the Audit Chamber didn't ask them questions. It is difficult.

Tamara Lyalenkova: It still occurs?

Andrey Kortunov: Certainly. Or, for example, on what it is possible to spend money? Very often happens so that it is possible to spend money for scientific infrastructure, that is to buy any modern microscope, and it is impossible to spend money for scientific researches. Or, say, it is possible to spend money for the equipment, but it is impossible to spend money for expendables. Therefore there is any such machine and isn't so well used because financing of service of this technique isn't provided. Here we have, unfortunately, a lot of purely bureaucratic, administrative, financial restrictions which reduce efficiency of use of this resource.Nevertheless, about 40 universities are leaders, received very much the considerable additional resources in certain cases comparable to their initial budgets. If to look at equipment the equipment, infrastructure support if to look at attachments to the same buildings, our universities, large regional universities, of course, change. But meanwhile it doesn't affect yet their competitiveness on a global scale. It is impossible to tell that to us now tumbled down crowds of foreign students, teachers, somehow the line item of the Russian universities in the international ratings essentially changed.

Tamara Lyalenkova: Perhaps it is necessary to dismiss all simply? Well, not everybody, but the considerable part.

Andrey Kortunov: It is possible to dismiss but where to take others? It is necessary then or to refuse education as economy sector, either to begin all over again, or to create parallel system. We after all have a private education. But look – whether it is possible to tell, what our private education on the quality much more exceeds the state? Probably - No.With rare exception. And then, as one my acquaintance spoke – if you want to close any HIGHER EDUCATION INSTITUTION, even if very bad even if in any remote region, directly start building nearby prison. Because education is also prevention of social problems. If the youth has no place to go if it doesn't go to student's audience if it is on the street, you can receive consequences on which now you don't reflect.

Tamara Lyalenkova: Andrey Vadimovich, we speak about the higher education, instead of about initial special and not about a specialized secondary education?

Andrey Kortunov: We have problems with a specialized secondary education too.

Tamara Lyalenkova: I mean a difference of poles – prison or institute.

Andrey Kortunov: If we had at least the Soviet system of secondary professional education, all these technical schools, technical training college, maybe, then our many problems and wouldn't be. But this system substantially was destroyed. Partially this system was transferred to regions. Regions have no money. The best pieces were privatized. Therefore to some extent the higher education now assumes functions, at least, part of functions of an average special. It is optionally bad.

If we look at America, they have a system of small higher educational institution which service needs of this region, staff or even the county. They issue diplomas – below than the bachelors, two years. It is actually preparation of "blue collars" – nurses or mechanics. Is it higher education or secondary education? I think, for Americans is not essentially. Important that they make graduates who are really demanded on a labor market which can find to itself operation, quite decent work with a quite good salary. Therefore if our bachelors, it is unimportant where these bachelors get an education – in technical schools either at university, or in specialized е but if these bachelors gain the diploma and them on a labor market perceive – well, and thank God. That we will cling to any terms – the higher this education not higher, not full the higher. It seems to me just scholastic disputes.

Tamara Lyalenkova: Andrey Kortunov is right – professional education shall give a profession which will provide to the person worthy life. However, in the Russian economic situation to make the correct prognosis quite difficult, however in just established North East federal university, apparently, found the correct decision.

We discuss experience of the new – North East federal university which was created on the basis of the Yakut state university. Now in its composition – 3 branches, 9 institutes and 9 faculties. Surprisingly, however, another – almost all graduates of this and last year found operation in the specialty. The rector of university Evgenia Mikhailova told about it.

Evgenia Mikhaylova: We can say with pride we reached good results. The demand in the specialty grew 93-95%, and on separate specialties practically to 100%. We employed all specialists graduates 2010 and 2011. But what to hide, for example, the bachelor - the civil engineer, 4 years, there is such judgment that is the person who has no finished higher education. Therefore we decided to provide to the young man receiving specialty and on the worker, by initial or average professional education. We together with the Union of employers and manage to solve today this problem with Association of builders. I very much hope that the civil engineer, the bachelor, for example, will have also specialty of the norm setter. Support of "Yakutskenergo" gave the chance to young power engineers to receive also specialty, for example, the electrician of the 6th discharge. And absolute employment just says that young people of working specialties aren't afraid.

Lyalenkova Tamara: I understand that you are giving the opportunity to get bachelors working specialty qualifications. So you secures person that he could find work. This means that people with higher education still not very much in demand in the region?

Evgenia Mikhailova: You rightly pointed out - creating the conditions for young people to be ready for anything in this life. In this regard, if they will hold parallel to higher education also nonprofit sector not be worse. Only get better.

Tamara Lyalenkova: Still, higher education is not enough demand in the region to a large number of ...

Evgenia Mikhailova: It is demanded. More than 44 thousand are necessary not only with technical specialties, not only engineers, but practically in all directions. For example, on target figures of reception of 2011, according to those requests which did branches - both industrial, and town-planning, we for 54% increased reception by economic specialties in spite of the fact that at the highest level said that it isn't necessary to prepare more than economists and lawyers. It is necessary – good lawyers and good economists. We increased the plan of reception for technical specialties by 60%. Following the results of the Olympic Games which we this year held, 16 thousand participated: on the first round – about 10 thousand, the second round – 3 thousand. Very serious interest and I see that there will be a good set.

And if earlier the university accepted on mathematics with 21 points, last year we increased to 40 points. Colleagues frankly were afraid that there will be a shortage especially as physics and chemistry too lifted to 36 and 38 points. And this year we even declared that those who would wish to be mathematician … But here it is necessary to explain. We have many good founders. AFK “Sistema”, “MTS”, they asked mathematicians. "MegaFon" too asked mathematicians-analysts. And to train really good mathematicians-analysts, (engineers aren't necessary to them, at them now everything is measured by units etc.) we lifted lower bound to 80 points. And I already know today that on these 25 places already 120 people wishing. Because the grant will be 10 thousand. Plus thanks to that program which the same has “” and at the same
“” these students will go as spoke, on all Union earlier. Practice of the oriented training is provided to them.

Tamara Lyalenkova: What most popular specialties on which enter in your university?

Evgenia Mikhaylova: I can say that following the results of the last year, road specialties were the most popular professions. On one place 20-22 persons.

Tamara Lyalenkova: And where children go to study if they don't enter in the university?

Evgenia Mikhaylova: We adjusted very good system, still by the first president of the republic – Mikhail Efimovich Nikolaev. The Department on preparation and placement of personnel was created. And almost annually 700-800 young people were collected in all higher education institutions of the Russian Federation. Annually them about 5 thousand people – in higher education institutions and Siberia, both the Far East, and Moscow, and St. Petersburg were trained. Only in one Moscow – more than 2 thousand students, for example, on those specialties which are demanded in economy of Yakutia. This tradition at us proceeds today.

After Unified State Examination was entered, it gave a certain saving for republican budgetary funds. At us practically to 60% of graduates of schools began to arrive in higher education institutions whereas the Yakut state university takes only 10%.

Tamara Lyalenkova: Where teachers come to you? Are graduates of the University that remain and continue research activities? Isthere a visitingprofessor?

Evgenia Mikhailova: We have 1,450 teachers. 1200 - those who work on a sustainable basis, and the remaining Combine. Basically, they are university graduates of the Far East. Of these, more than half - 60% - graduates of Yakutsk State University. There are graduates of the Leningrad University. There are graduates and Bauman, Novosibirsk State University, Moscow State University.

In front of me, of course, there was such a problem that I had half or 30%dismiss invite from other regions. So I decided that the first two years, they will learn. I must say that 25% of teachers already working today just for that year included seminars, courses, etc. Around 10 people arrived from abroad. This is mainly in Japan, China, South Korea, Britain and France. We then joined the University of the Arctic, where we employ teachers from Norway, Finland, and Central Russia. We invited five teachers in the first place, speakers, and two teachers arrived from America.

But their teachers, we sent someone to master in Cambridge, for example, one in the University of Chicago.

Certainly, it is sometimes difficult to make decisions, there are such teachers, which 85-90 years. They continue to work, and thus would like also further to work. Absolutely sincerely they say that use of computer information technologies is not the most important, it as the tool. But that students want more distinct speech, there is a wish that the professor could hear their responses, it too should be considered. I know that the majority of our universities have such professors, in serious age. It would be desirable, of course, that somehow they left educational institutions. It is difficult but I already created on September 1 of the last year, council of instructors. People who have experience, will help university formation.

Tamara Lyalenkova: NEFU Rector Evgenia Mikhailova, rather than many of her colleagues, said that the main objective of the reforms - changes in the quality of education, to retrain teachers.

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